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Maradona or Messi?

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    #1

    Maradona or Messi?

    Which one has been a greater player? Here are the stats:

    Maradona has won 3 league titles, 1 in Argentina and 2 in Italy. Messi has won 9 (and counting) league titles, all in Spain.
    Maradona has been league top scorer 4 times (3 times in Argentina, once in Italy). Messi has been league top scorer 8 times (and counting, all in Spain).
    Maradona has won the World Cup with Argentine (once). Messi has not.
    Neither one have won the South American championship.
    Maradona has 34 goals in 91 matches for Argentina. Messi has 65 goals in 128 games for Argentina.

    I think Maradona has been the better player. Aside from the fact that Maradona has achieved his stats as an attacking midfielder while Messi has been a forward, Maradona single handedly has been able to carry teams that otherwise were weaker if not mediocre. Napoli was an average/weak team before his arrival and an average/weak team after his departure. Yet while with them he guided them to 2 league titles, a UEFA Cup championship and an Italian Cup championship. Messi joined a stacked team that would have done well with or without him as they have been doing throughout their history. Even on a national level Maradona almost single handedly delivered the 1986 World Cup to Argentina. Without him they would have been good but no where near what they were with him. Messi has really not done anything remarkable on the national stage for a player of his caliber. On the other hand Maradona had many off the field issues which Messi doesn't although I'm comparing them strictly based on performance.

    So who do you think has the upper hand?
    18
    Maradona
    0%
    9
    Messi
    0%
    9
    I went to Sharif University. I'm a superior genetic mutation, an improvement on the existing mediocre stock.

    Tags: None
    #2
    If Messi hasn't done anything for Argentina than players like Zanetti, Cambiasso, Batistuta, Ayala, Simeone, Crespo, Redondo, etc must all be scum for they have even less success than Messi for Argentina.

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      #3
      The fact that the clubs in his own country wouldn't pay for his treatment is huge for me. Argentina let him down more than he has them(as he owes them nothing, yet gives them his all) and he should have played for Spain where he is admired(even by a lot of Merengues) and has more a sense of belonging. His career would have been nowhere near what it was if he stayed in Argentina rather than move to Spain.

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        #4
        Originally posted by Azeem98 View Post
        If Messi hasn't done anything for Argentina than players like Zanetti, Cambiasso, Batistuta, Ayala, Simeone, Crespo, Redondo, etc must all be scum for they have even less success than Messi for Argentina.
        While I rank Messi higher than the named players, however, many if not all of them have achieved more with Argentina than Messi has. When playing for Argentina he has not lived up to his hype. Maradona has.
        I went to Sharif University. I'm a superior genetic mutation, an improvement on the existing mediocre stock.

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          #5
          Originally posted by KC McElroy View Post
          While I rank Messi higher than the named players, however, many if not all of them have achieved more with Argentina than Messi has. When playing for Argentina he has not lived up to his hype. Maradona has.
          Messi has been consistently punished for Argentina’s mediocrity but yet has helped his country to 2 Copa America Finals and a World Cup Final. 

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            #6
            Originally posted by Azeem98 View Post
            Messi has been consistently punished for Argentina’s mediocrity but yet has helped his country to 2 Copa America Finals and a World Cup Final. 
            Yet no titles. Also I would argue against his Argentine teammates being mediocre. They are no worse than the Argentines during Maradona, Bautistuta or Kempes's time. And as mentioned before, Maradona single handedly delivered the 1986 World Cup in spite of such teammates. He was not just part of the Argentine national team in 1986. He WAS the Argentine national team.
            I went to Sharif University. I'm a superior genetic mutation, an improvement on the existing mediocre stock.

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by KC McElroy View Post
              Yet no titles. Also I would argue against his Argentine teammates being mediocre. They are no worse than the Argentines during Maradona, Bautistuta or Kempes's time. And as mentioned before, Maradona single handedly delivered the 1986 World Cup in spite of such teammates. He was not just part of the Argentine national team in 1986. He WAS the Argentine national team.
              I'm not taking about individual teamates of Messi being mediocre i'm talking about the team collectively. Maradona played under Carlos Bilardo is bigger name than any manager under which Messi has played for Argentina.

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                #8
                Kempes played under Cesar Menotti. Just for a second imagine if Messi gets to play for Argentina under him or Bilardo with his current teammates i think he could have achieved more than Maradona at the international stage.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Azeem98 View Post
                  I'm not taking about individual teamates of Messi being mediocre i'm talking about the team collectively. Maradona played under Carlos Bilardo is bigger name than any manager under which Messi has played for Argentina.
                  I doubt it. Bilardo is a big name because Maradona made his Argentine team a great team. Without Maradona Bilardo and the teams he has coached have not been too impressive. Especially during Messi's tenure Argentina has had many higher profile coaches.
                  I went to Sharif University. I'm a superior genetic mutation, an improvement on the existing mediocre stock.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Maradona has absolutely no influence (never has done) in anything at all to do with the way Argentina play or influence on any player.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Azeem98 View Post
                      Maradona has absolutely no influence (never has done) in anything at all to do with the way Argentina play or influence on any player.
                      Lol you should be banned from all sport forums and talks just for that comment.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        @Ramin: I think you meant 2 Italian league titles and not Spanish ones.

                        I'm a big Maradona fan (it goes Maradona first, Karimi close second and Ronaldinho third) so I might be biased....

                        But I don't think it's a real comparison because of the following factors

                        1. As mentioned Maradona made a weak Napoli and a weak Argentina champions (how many players from Napoli and Argentina back then can a average person name?) Messi has been surrounded by icons both in Barca as well as their NT.

                        2. Beside football skills Maradona was a leader and had character. Messi lacks both. A whole team and nation would lean on Maradona to help them. Messi always fails to be Messi when he is most needed.

                        3. Back then the gap (both moneywise as well as players) was smaller between teams than it is now.

                        4. Back then defenders would whoop your ass and try to injure you as there were less cameras and less referees/linemen to prevent that behavior

                        5. Maradona did what he did with those old balls, crappy pitches, old kits and shoes. Messi enjoys the latest technologies (ball, shoes, kits) plays on perfect/good pitches and benefits from all the new science of fitness, nutrition, recover etc

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Babak agha View Post
                          @Ramin: I think you meant 2 Italian league titles and not Spanish ones.
                          I'm a big Maradona fan (it goes Maradona first, Karimi close second and Ronaldinho third) so I might be biased....
                          But I don't think it's a real comparison because of the following factors
                          1. As mentioned Maradona made a weak Napoli and a weak Argentina champions (how many players from Napoli and Argentina back then can a average person name?) Messi has been surrounded by icons both in Barca as well as their NT.
                          2. Beside football skills Maradona was a leader and had character. Messi lacks both. A whole team and nation would lean on Maradona to help them. Messi always fails to be Messi when he is most needed.
                          3. Back then the gap (both moneywise as well as players) was smaller between teams than it is now.
                          4. Back then defenders would whoop your ass and try to injure you as there were less cameras and less referees/linemen to prevent that behavior
                          5. Maradona did what he did with those old balls, crappy pitches, old kits and shoes. Messi enjoys the latest technologies (ball, shoes, kits) plays on perfect/good pitches and benefits from all the new science of fitness, nutrition, recover etc
                          Yes I meant Italian. I edited the post.
                          We've seen Maradona's club team with and without him. There's a huge gap in between these teams. We've seen Messi's club team with and without him. They've been pretty much the same level regardless of how far back we look.
                          Anyone who claims Maradona had no influence on the way Argentina played is either too young or had a very busy life that prevented them from watching the 1986 World Cup games. Again it's not that Maradona was on Argentina's 1986 team, but rather Maradona WAS Argentina's 1986 team.
                          I went to Sharif University. I'm a superior genetic mutation, an improvement on the existing mediocre stock.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Babak agha View Post
                            Lol you should be banned from all sport forums and talks just for that comment.
                            I even said Sergio Ramos is the most influential player in Real's modrenn history

                            I'll explain my point later.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              MARADONA for me for sure!
                              Never seen anything quite like 1986 WC, Maradona single single handedly won the WC for Argentina, same as he did in U19 WC years earlier!

                              1986 will always remain a remarkable one man show WC for me and also my favorite of all WCs. And I say that as a PELE fan.



                              Good old days...
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